Hi Roger,



Thanks much for taking the time to respond to my post. You wrote:



R:>> To me the key is the difference between "infinite" and "finite." I simply do not believe the boundaries can be crossed--at least in terms of the finite becoming infinite. I do not see how we, the finite, can ever become infinite? At the very least, we will always have had a beginning. Yet this would be required, IMHO, if we were to become equal participants in the Godhead, which I believe is what TOm suggests. I know that "with God all things are possible" but this appears to be along the same lines of the age old question: Can God make a rock too big for him to throw? I tend to answer such questions with "Yes, but if he wanted to He could throw it." Either way, the answer is a mystery, much like I believe our final state of "glorification" is.>>



DW: As I mentioned to Justin, I think the Biblical data concerning deification can legitimately be read two ways: partial deification or full deification. As such, I can agree with your assessment that we are (Biblically speaking) dealing with a ?mystery?. But, with that said, when one adds the interpretations of the early Church Fathers, I personally believe the weight of the evidence points in the direction of full deification.



R:>> Well I think the first-century Jews who heard Jesus claim to be "I AM" would heartily disagree with you. This was blatant blasphemy in their view. They had murmured when he claimed to be "one" with the Father, but now he was actually taking it to the next level... "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was, I AM." This was the name God had given when Moses in effect asked: "Who shall I say sent me?" God says: I AM that I AM." Now Jesus was actually claiming to be the same I AM.>>



DW: Most scholars are of the opinion that the ?I am sayings? of Jesus are not related to the Exodus 3:14 passage. After learning Greek, I must concur with this growing consensus?the grammar of Johannine I am sayings weighs decidedly against equating it with the grammar of the LXX translation of Ex. 3:14. There is an excellent online debate over John 8:58 that pretty much explores all of the issues surrounding the I am sayings. Though it will certainly help if you know Greek, it is not necessary to follow most of this 500 plus page debate on John 8:58 between Robert Bowman and Jason DeBuhn (both men are highly respected scholars):


http://www.forananswer.org/Mars_Jw/JB-RB.Jn8_58.Index.htm



R:>> The concept was certainly understood by the Jews (who also understood the implications) and was instantly taken by them as sheer blasphemy.>>



DW: But blasphemy for what? For claiming to be the one true God? Or was it for claiming to be the Messiah, the Son of the one true God? [See Matt. 26:63-65; Mark 16:61-64; Luke 22:67-71; John 4:25, 26; 8:28.]



Now, with this said, I do want to make it clear that I believe in the full divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, but not because of John 8:58.



R:>> Where I live, moisture is generally not a bad thing!>>



DW: It is considered a dry year here in the little coastal community I live if we get less than 45 inches of rain!



Grace and peace,



David